sjpage
Learner STdriver
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re:Insurance claim Whose liable – whose fault was it wife’s or other party ? I can’t work it out, Insurance claim
Hi everybody
Can anybody help me with this one
My wife was driving down a road 30mph limit.A bus in front of her stopped at the side of the road to pick up passengers, she went past it over chevrons with a broken line to pass it, she did slow down and the damage to the vehicles shows this. I would guess approximately 15-20mph airbags did not go off.
In front of this bus was an entrance/exit from a petrol station and a car had pulled across the front of the bus in an attempt to cross to the other side of the road though the car had stopped it was to late she clipped the front of it.
My hope is it was not my wife’s fault.
My guess is if you pull out from minor road (in this case a petrol station) to major road, you have a high duty of care and will be at fault if you are hit by a car already established on the main road and my wife was established on the main road. What this person did by pulling in front of the bus was pull out on to a main road where she could not see if it was safe to do so.
If you asked the driver pulling out in front of the bus this question you would get this answer
‘did you think it was safe to pull out – ‘yes’ – ‘so the road was clear then’ – ‘I don’t know I couldn’t see’
Though you have the other side that as my wife was driving around the bus and could not have a clear view around it she should have been going slower and if you asked my wife 'was it safe to go around the bus' she would say ‘yes because you would not expect to find a car stopped across the road in front of it creating a hazard - the same way as going around a blind bend in the road.’
I don’t know anyone ? please dont say 50/50 as we have a £500 excess
PS there is a little more info but I will post that later so as not to sway your judgement
Edited by sjpage on 31-07-10 09:19 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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 GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to sjpage
The key here is whether your wife should have waited behind the bus or it was ok to overtake. This depends on the bus stop and road markings.
If the road markings say you should not drive on them this is for a reason....because it's dangerous and probably because of the bus stop masking dangers.
If however it was legal and acceptable to overtake a bus there then the onus is purely on the car pulling out to make sure the path is clear.
In either situation your wife has, on her side, the fact she was on the major road.
The third party obviously did not have a clear view and was edging out when he should have waited for the bus to pull off again.
You should certainly pursue a claim for 100% of your loss but be prepared that the TP may argue that your wife should not have overtaken where she did if that's what the road markings, street signs and common sense suggest. It could go 50/50 in that case.
But I would not expect any worse than 50%. It could even go 75/25 in your wifes favour.
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 rickmanchester
Regular ST poster
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In response to GingerTom
If the road markings are as to stated then I would say you are totally within your right to overtake the bus. The only time you must not go over the chevron area is if it has a solid white line around it. Your diagram suggest this was not the case. You shouldn't drive in this area for the sake of it, you use it if you have to. In this case to overtake the stationary bus. The driver pulling out of the petrol station should not pull out if they can't see it is clear and safe to do so. How can they possibly say it's safe when there is a 30'ft long object blocking their view? They simply can't. I would persue them for 100% of the blame on the other driver. It falls down to this question. Was it safe to pull out without making another vehicle alter course or slow down! The simple answer is no, therefor it was not safe to pull out. Other drivers fault. I dont think you have anything to worry about mate.
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GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to rickmanchester
Isn't that more or less what I said? 
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sjpage
Learner STdriver
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In response to GingerTom
Thanks guys thats what i thought
heres the info i was holding back
the driver pulling out was a young girl driving a 15 year old Peugeot that had already got side crash damage along the door, she stated that damage was already there and not to worry about it and as her car had only a slight scrape on the bumper she did not want to peruse a claim and left her address and was gone like a shot, 1 hour later her boyfriend came around to our house with a quote from a local backtreet garage for £600 for damage to a door wing bumper door etc and said we should give him the cash and save any hassle , I then if told him that we should go through the insurance then and we would get a quote for the damage to my wife’s car he said he didn’t know his girlfriends insurance details but he would bring them straight round and was gone in a flash and we still have not heard from either of them
my wife’s car is an 08 focus and after taking it to ford have found that I was though was only a minor scratch is actually over £1000 worth of damage the wing was pushed out and bent on the inside I didn’t see this until they pointed it out as well as the fog lamp and headlamp brackets broken bumper and spoiler cracked you get the picture
but as I said I don’t want this information to sway any judgement
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GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to sjpage
Go onto http://www.askmid.com/ownvehicle/ and put her reg in and see if it's on the database.
If it's not contact the police immediately to say you have been hit by an uninsured car.
They are trying it on asking you for the money! Can't blame them for trying I guess! but put it in the hands of your insurers telling them you hold the other driver responsible.
Sadly if the other driver isn't insured even if the police prosecute them you could still end up losing money.
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listie
Regular ST poster
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In response to GingerTom
If she hit him her fault, if he hit her then his fault, thats it broken down to it's bare bones. Common sence will show that both parties are not at fault
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GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to listie
Erm not quite Listie. I wish it was as simple as that but it certainly isn't !
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sjpage
Learner STdriver
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In response to listie
yes the car is insured we just cant find out if she is on the policy as her boyfirend said it was his car
If she hit him her fault, if he hit her then his fault, thats it broken down to it's bare bones
i understand that but even though the car had stopped it had stopped in her path witout time for her to brake !
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GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to sjpage
Exactly. If a car pulls out in front of you and you hit it you would not be happy to be held responsible !
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 Stormchaser
Summer is here...shiny car but dead grass (what a trade-off!)
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In response to GingerTom
Hopefully at the scene the details of the vehicle, driver's name as well as their home address were obtained as per your first post; your insurer will still be able to pursue the claim regardless of whether the other driver is not insured albeit the process is not as straightforward as if they were dealing with another insurance company I would imaging.
The MIB will still be able to assist with paying out (after all the MIB have a pot of money for this reason).
As GT said you still need to contact your insurance company and leave it with them. This is what we all pay our high premiums for after all. There is always the chance of losing your excess, not helpful I understand (I personally see the excess as a bit of a gamble - I was fortunate enough to go my first 7 years of driving without having to pay it and then last Christmas WHACK! That will be £750 please).
As to who is liable then it is my opinon alone on the information currently to hand that it 'could' be weighed in the favour of your wife. Both parties could use the bus as mitigation however it would be interesting to understand the view of the road that both drivers had in order to establish whether that changes the circumstances. Yes it is correct that nobody should be simply pulling out onto a road from a petrol station and the Highway Code could well be introduced to assist arguing your case and it is worth noting this particular part of legislation:
Section 38 of the Road Traffic Act 1988:
(7) Any failure on the part of a person to observe a provision of the highway code shall not of itself render that person liable to criminal proceedings of any kind but any such failure may in any proceedings (whether civil or criminal, and including proceedings for an offence under the Traffic Acts, the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or sections 18 to 23 of the Transport Act 1985) be relied upon by any party to the proceedings as tending to establish or negative any liability which is in question in those proceedings.
It may be worthwhile consulting a copy of the Highway Code to assist in your case in highlighting what your wife was doing correctly and what the other driver was not doing correctly to assist in establishing liability.
As a starter for ten - here's a link to one section that may apply:
Online Highway Code
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sjpage
Learner STdriver
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In response to Stormchaser
thanks guys much appreciated
I have managed to form a conclusion of sorts from other forums on the net that reads like this
As the car pulling out of the petrol station was pulling out in to a major road they had a high duty of care and should have yielded to oncoming traffic and not pulled out if they could not safely see to do so and as they on the wrong side of the road at time of impact they should be held responsible the fact that my wife was passing a stationery bus has no bearing on the accident as this was a legal manoeuvre and she was obeying all the laws set out in the highway code when doing so
if anyone can improve on it, it would be appreciated –
I guess somewhere there must be something in the highway code about pulling out safely on to a major road and not pulling out when you can’t see around a parked vehicle i.e. bus
many thanks
Stef
LOL do you know the best bit about all this and the saving grace  she was not driving my car
Edited by sjpage on 31-07-10 04:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to sjpage
The above is what I said (I have 30 years experience in dealing with motor claims ) and the only thing that would count against your wife is if she was contravening road markings or traffic signs.
Your insurers will pay for repairs to your car and defend you against any claim the TP tries to make against you. Included with your policy you might have Legal Protection cover. This is the service which actively pursues a claim for your losses against the TP. So check the policy to see what you have got.
You may get lots of 'ambulance chaser' firms contacting you like flies around cow poo all trying to put you in a hire car and claim fake injuries etc because there is lots of money in it for them.
Just make sure you deal with firms recommended by your insurers are read all T&C before you sign anything.
If you need any help with the legal jargon or get confused with anything etc just PT me.
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peterex
Post Whore
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In response to GingerTom
I think it will end up knock for knock!
If the bus had been stationary for a little while
it could be that anyone might carefully be pulling out of the petrol station. Did the bus driver wave her to come out? Did she just dart out without taking care, who knows?
It looks like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other to me!
Although in this instance it seems not to apply. Overtaking on the Chevrons with a broken white line as far as I am aware should only be done if it is safe to do so and the road ahead is clear.
It doesn't mean go for it!
Of course that doesn't apply to bikers as it's their "God given right" lane! 
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Hoody1
Norfolk Dumplin
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In response to peterex
The young girl pulling out of the petrol station was at fault as she was pulling out of a minor on to a major road.
Forget searching for insurance companies, phone YOUR insurance, make a claim and give them the Reg number and let them deal with that but state you are claiming against the other persons insurance as you were not at fault, thats what you pay your premium for.
Simples, let us know how you get on buddy
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GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to Hoody1
Actually it's not what you pay your premium for.
Everyones a bloody expert !
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Hoody1
Norfolk Dumplin
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In response to GingerTom
Was only putting my point across.
Performance Blue ST TDCI
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GingerTom
No dogs allowed !
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In response to Hoody1
LOL I know. Sorry for the rant. 
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Hoody1
Norfolk Dumplin
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In response to GingerTom
So tell me GT what do you pay your premium for?
The way i understood is that they are there to assist you in the event of an accident, fault or non-fault etc etc blah blah blah lol
Performance Blue ST TDCI
Bluefin V2
Eibach Lowered
Focus ST225 Front Calipers
EBC RedStuff Pads and Groved Discs
Blue Goodridge Lines
Lockwood Dials with Blue Display
PowerFlow Twin Exhaust
Airtec InterCooler
Forge Pipework in Blue
Halos
Colour Coded Engine Bay
Work in Progress:
AutoMeter Boost/Volt/Oil Temp Gauges
Moulded A Pillar Triple Pod
EyeBrows/Fit Blackeye Xenons/Halos |
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listie
Regular ST poster
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In response to GingerTom
Erm not quite Listie. I wish it was as simple as that but it certainly isn't !
My Sister is an insurance claims handler for Aviva, those are the basic rules they apply first of all, sorry mate but yes it is as simple as that!
They will take into account everything else and it should end up as a none fault accident so she said when she was round mine earlier
2005 (55) ST TDCI Saloon in Magnum Grey
Mods so Far
K&N Panel filter
LED Puddle lights
LED Rear Number plate lights
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Roveron
Smoked rear lights
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Edited by listie on 31-07-10 10:10 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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